'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Planes fer less, getum at Honest Harry's. (Trading area)
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NickHNASB
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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby NickHNASB » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:12 am

Thank you for sharing, it's a lovely render :)
However, I'm going to accuse you of cheating ;)
The only engines that would fit in those nacelles would be turboprops :shock:
I know Crimson Skies is fantasy (or, at least alternative reality) but that takes the aircraft too far out of period for me. This is a personal thing and NOT meant as a slur on your work.

My view of the original Gladius (all I have to go on is the Z&B PDF) is that it mounted some (rather small) V8s about the wing spar with the undercarriage below the spar which is how it got away with such short nacelles. My de Havilland engineers, faced with having to re-engine an existing design, went for the underslung option rather than mounting the engines in front of the wing spar which would have radically changed its centre of gravity (and caused other problems).

I note that your design has external bomb stowage whilst I went for an internal bomb bay (hence the deeper fuselage). I'd be happy to go for external bombs if people think it's more appropriate.

BTW, I'd be happy to share my 3D models with you foxmalcolm if you'd like to create renders from them.

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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby foxmalcolm » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:33 am

NickHNASB wroteColonThank you for sharing, it's a lovely render :)
However, I'm going to accuse you of cheating ;)
The only engines that would fit in those nacelles would be turboprops :shock:

Nah, thats ok I don't mind, but in my defence I didn't model them on any existing turboprop design I know of, I modelled them of a Argus As 410 Engine . . . I just "trimmed" the engine cowling down somewhat . . . severely. ;)
When Patrick asked me to make 3D models for his Z&B manual I was given a lot of artistic license but ultimately I decided to keep things as close to his artistic view point as possible.

In fact keeping the planes components as "period" as possible was quite a challenge.
If you look carefully, large sections were borrowed heavily from other planes of the same era [much like cars and planes are today], it is literally a mishmash of plane parts that have been altered to work together aesthetically.

By the way, that's my Gladius on the front cover of Z&B . . . [grins]


NickHNASB wroteColonBTW, I'd be happy to share my 3D models with you foxmalcolm if you'd like to create renders from them.

Sounds awesome, especially since the others seem to have accepted you as another CS 3D artist.
I must admit I am a bit jealous that you are getting your work printed on shapeways, I have often thought about doing that for the past few years but ultimately I have been afraid of losing IP control once it becomes mainstream.

Just out of curiosity, do you hollow out your models before you upload them or are they printed solid?

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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby NickHNASB » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:00 pm

I'd missed the Gldius on the Z&B cover :oops:
I'll stay with the Gypsy Six engines but remove the bulge from the fuselage for a bomb bay.

One thing that has always attracted me to CS was that it was mostly 'hard engineering', the characters and action may have been larger-than-life but most of the technology was credible for the period. Some of the later aircraft designs, though, seemed to have been squashed into a rather square planform, I assume this was so the aircraft were easier to display on a VGA resolution screen.

I seem to remember that a lot of the Black Zeros' aircraft designs were 'frankenplanes', nothing wrong with that, particularly if you have to work in 2D rather than with a full 3D modelling package.

Virtually all my designs are hollowed out, in most cases it saves 25%-33% but in a few cases (EG flying wings) it has saved almost 70%. It generally means that material cost on a model is proportional to surface area rather than volume. Hollow models also weight slightly less which is useful when mounting them on adjustable height flight stands to indicate altitude.

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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby Cyagen » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:19 pm

A question that I have Fox is where is the front turret on the Gladius?

I am still trying to figure that out.
Malphas, over and out

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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby foxmalcolm » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:36 pm

Thats because there is none.
When I made the plane originally I was only given one line about its armaments and a top down view line drawing.
In fact that is true for most of the planes, Patrick did a great job compartmentalising all the relevant data in the book.
I am sure that had I that info to begin with I might have made some design changes, but in fairness, I don't think a lot of the finer details were written by that point.
But in the end it was his book and he was happy with what I envisioned.

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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby NickHNASB » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:21 pm

OK, the Gladiolus has been on a diet and lost its bomb bay, I've also tweaked the tail quite a bit to make it more like the Fox's render:
https://www.shapeways.com/model/1292404/1-200-grumman-b-1b-gladiolus.html

I've kept the tail wheel semi-retractable because I think this design needs to look streamlined (also makes the model stronger).
I've also kept the canopy short so the gunner probably also has to be radio operator/navigator. This is in keeping with the Z&B plan view but not the Fox render, what would you guys prefer?
(I'd stay with 2-man, 3 is going to make it slower and heavier.)

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Thom
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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby Thom » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:07 pm

Looks great!
Flying the Crimson Skies

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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby foxmalcolm » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:18 pm

Hey I like the small cockpit idea, mine is just . . . . roomy.

In actuality mine is only a 2 seater, I modelled it after that of later model stuka dive bombers, where the gunner moves into the turret in order to use it.
If you like, you could consider it a license variant, this particular variant is built under license by nation "X" with cockpit modifications that suit their needs.

Sort of like how Australia was licensed to build the p-51 Mustang but after initial order was complete, began developing its own improved variant which was later classified the CA-18.

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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby NickHNASB » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:41 pm

I'm not sure if the Australian Mustang would have been improved or just adapted to local conditions and to use parts and components that were already being licence built in Australia.

The B-1b Gladiolus is now available to buy: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/fenedgewargaming?section=Dieselpunk&s=0
Please let me know if anything needs tweaking (fluff or the model).

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Re: 'Not' Crimson Skies planes available on Shapeways

Postby NickHNASB » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:42 pm

Two new ones
The Texas Raptor (LN.401): https://www.shapeways.com/product/GYMZ5 ... d=59175485

Something really weird from Payen, PA 321: https://www.shapeways.com/product/KPZK8 ... d=59184691
No way this thing would fly (the 3-view sketch was awful).


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