CS Aircraft Carriers

For anything not in the above. Ground combat/personal combat. Anything to do with CS, but not already covered.
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Carthaginian
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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Carthaginian » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:46 am

stormwell wroteColonIIRC the Pykrete carriers were suggested to carry B-29 Super-Fortresses so that the island hopping campaign in the Pacific wouldn't be needed.


Originally, England intended to build Habbakuk to fill in the mid-Atlantic air gap to cover the convoy system.
After the studies were made and the CVE's proved to be rather inexpensive and very effective, the plan was dropped.
Southrons, hear your country call you!
Up lest worse than death befall you!
To arms, to arms, to arms in Dixie.


All my planes are made with parts from: http://www.toposolitario.com/workshop/crimsonskies.html.

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Thom
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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Thom » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:46 pm

I think that a Pykrete carrier could most affordably be manufactured by one of the nations bordering the Baltic Sea or the North Sea. Perhaps Sweden or Norway is selling them!
Flying the Crimson Skies

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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Carthaginian » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:13 am

Perhaps- or maybe the Russians are looking at them as a possible way to build ships.
They would cost £2,500,000 each as opposed to the battleship HMS Rodney, which cost £7,500,000.

The problem is that you will never be able to get one to an acceptable speed.
7-8 knots was the ultimate top speed for the Habbakuk. You would have to mount turbo-generators and electric engines in external nacelles to power one- steam turbine engines with reduction gears located internally would melt their way out the bottom of the ship due to the heat levels involved.
Southrons, hear your country call you!
Up lest worse than death befall you!
To arms, to arms, to arms in Dixie.


All my planes are made with parts from: http://www.toposolitario.com/workshop/crimsonskies.html.

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Thom
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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Thom » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:10 am

Oh h h h, replay the Merrimac and the Monitor with Reds vs Imperials using armored pykrete ships! :D

One of the Canadian design teams suggested putting the power plant for pykrete ships on a towed barge to protect from heat, the use pod/outrigger mounted electric engines to drive the ship. That would work well from my point of view though it might add another level of vulnerability.
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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Densoman2 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:30 am

Hey maybe the Crimson Skies version would be built for smaller planes so the ship itself could be smaller, faster and more practical but still be bigger than the conventional carrier. I'm thinking the carrier would still be big enough to service blimps as well. I really like the idea of Sweden and Norway building them. Maybe this is a big viking raiding ship full of pirates.
:)

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Thom
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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Thom » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:15 am

Oooohhh! I like that idea! Viking raiders/pirates hiding out in Scandinavian Fjords and remote Islands, using Pykrete carriers. They could use small airships to scope out targets and proximity of defenses, then call in the carrier.

They would need cool pirate planes with design names like "Valkyrie", "Berserker" and "Mjolnir"!
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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Carthaginian » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:57 am

Densoman2 wroteColonHey maybe the Crimson Skies version would be built for smaller planes so the ship itself could be smaller, faster and more practical but still be bigger than the conventional carrier. I'm thinking the carrier would still be big enough to service blimps as well. I really like the idea of Sweden and Norway building them. Maybe this is a big viking raiding ship full of pirates.
:)


It's not so much a matter of making them smaller to make them faster.
I mean, sure, you will get some speed gain.
But a smaller ship means less surface area for the mounting of the external nacelles. Fewer nacelles means less horsepower available. Less horsepower means a loss in possible top speed. The top speed of the fastest version of Habbakuk was to be about 12 knots. This was on a ship about the length of a modern Nimitz class ship. Most aircraft would require catapults to launch on that ship- it wouldn't have enough wind over the bow to make takeoff at fully loaded weight possible!

Habbakuk didn't work when shrunk- it was a "go big or go home" type of project.


I would see a lot more nations concentrating on carriers that battleships.
Smaller carriers would proliferate as they are cheaper to build/maintain than zeps.
Economically powerful countries= England, France and maybe Japan- would begin building supercarriers as soon as the idea occurs- because while a big ship might cost a lot more... it really don't take that many more crew to man the vessel!This means that you'd be putting your limited manpower to better use. Probably, no North American nation would build a carrier bigger than the U.S.S. Ranger and likely none bigger than Ryujo. The Scandinavian nations might build some of similar size- or even better, floatplane cruisers like Gotland!
Southrons, hear your country call you!
Up lest worse than death befall you!
To arms, to arms, to arms in Dixie.


All my planes are made with parts from: http://www.toposolitario.com/workshop/crimsonskies.html.

Densoman2
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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Densoman2 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:12 am

Thom wroteColonOooohhh! I like that idea! Viking raiders/pirates hiding out in Scandinavian Fjords and remote Islands, using Pykrete carriers. They could use small airships to scope out targets and proximity of defenses, then call in the carrier.

They would need cool pirate planes with design names like "Valkyrie", "Berserker" and "Mjolnir"!


I know that this carrier type might not be 100% feasible but considering how some of the Crimson Skies ships look vs the laws of physics I think we could consider a few Scandinavian pirates with a "frozen" carrier as not too far out on the extreme. In regards to Thom's pirate plane names I have some old X-type designs from the late 30's and early 40's that didn't quite make it but sure look cool.

Now how to attach it.........?

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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Thom » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:56 am

A few days ago I typed up a long post on this thread about Carthaginian mention of Floatplane Cruisers. The internet ate it. . . . . :( I was so upset that I went to bed without trying again.

BUT, seaplane tenders were the FIRST aircraft carriers, and to me, a Pykrete cruiser or battleship makes even more sense for pirates than a pure flat decked carrier does. Add a short ski ramp and a steam catapult and you can short launch from the deck and still have lots of room for lots of big guns AND a dirigible tower/mooring hook. Just use small/light cranes to recover the planes to their hanger/hold (You could even side door them in!) after they land beside the ship, rather than ON the ship and suddenly that ship becomes very much scarier! Unsinkable and endurable, just exactly what pirates need! It could even be disguised as a commercial cargo vessel. :D
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Re: CS Aircraft Carriers

Postby Carthaginian » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:50 pm

Densoman2 wroteColonI know that this carrier type might not be 100% feasible but considering how some of the Crimson Skies ships look vs the laws of physics I think we could consider a few Scandinavian pirates with a "frozen" carrier as not too far out on the extreme.


Anything in the Crimson Skies universe that doesn't look like it can fly doesn't exist to me.
PERIOD.
Only the aircraft that look like aircraft exist. All the others, I have different pictures in my head for them. At one time, I started to making markers for aircraft by kitbashing some that were already out there. I've drawn a few of my own lately. Though I'm not nearly as good as some, they are good enough for me and will be posted here when I get them ready. I hope to, one day, go through the artistic abortion that was the 'Aircraft Manual' and redraw the more cartoonish aircraft into something believable.


Thom wroteColonA few days ago I typed up a long post on this thread about Carthaginian mention of Floatplane Cruisers. The internet ate it. . . . . :( I was so upset that I went to bed without trying again.

BUT, seaplane tenders were the FIRST aircraft carriers, and to me, a Pykrete cruiser or battleship makes even more sense for pirates than a pure flat decked carrier does. Add a short ski ramp and a steam catapult and you can short launch from the deck and still have lots of room for lots of big guns AND a dirigible tower/mooring hook. Just use small/light cranes to recover the planes to their hanger/hold (You could even side door them in!) after they land beside the ship, rather than ON the ship and suddenly that ship becomes very much scarier! Unsinkable and endurable, just exactly what pirates need! It could even be disguised as a commercial cargo vessel. :D


1.) Now, a Pykrete cargo ship isn't too far-fetched; speed isn't an issue and the enormous cargo volume would be important. You have only one real problem... where you gonna park it? Habbakuk was to have had a draft of >100'/31m; this greatly limits the locations where it could be constructed and docked. Virtually all work would have to be done in very deep bays or far out to sea under most circumstances- think of the logistical problems facing modern supertankers, and also take into consideration the ease with which liquid cargo can be transferred under these circumstances.
Smaller vessels would make for easier docking- but I don't know exactly how much their draft will be reduced. Use in the Nordic nations would make for better possibilities of use, though, as the fjords there are naturally very deep.

2.) A SEAPLANE CARRIER is something I have very much wanted to design for Crimson Skies. I did one for the Cuba book that I have never finished (but an re-reading and cleaning up a bit in prep to continue work on). It was a converted merchant in the vein of the Marus of the Imperial Japanese Navy, but I also wanted to design a purpose-built vessel based on the Harrier Skyhook Carrier. That ship would have a catapult launch system, and use a modified zep skyhook to capture planes flying low and slow.


Keeping in the same vein as Pykrete- but getting a little bit more conventional- think about something like boats made outta concrete!!! These ships actually worked, and sailed for several years around the close of their respective wars. Many of them are still afloat s a breakwater in Canada- proof that if well-maintained, the vessels might have a long and useful working life. Virtually any nation could build one of these vessels, as the material would be cheap and readily available. It would require only structural steel beams and the outer hull would be concrete. Though the cost would be approximately the same, you didn't need as many skilled tradesmen to construct the vessel. This would possibly make the concrete ship an attractive option to less 'educated nations' (like the Collective and Louisiana) or nations where steel was in shorter supply (like Australia and Japan).
Southrons, hear your country call you!
Up lest worse than death befall you!
To arms, to arms, to arms in Dixie.


All my planes are made with parts from: http://www.toposolitario.com/workshop/crimsonskies.html.


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