Jetpacks!!

For anything not in the above. Ground combat/personal combat. Anything to do with CS, but not already covered.
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Thom
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Jetpacks!!

Postby Thom » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:25 pm

Ok now we swing into the purely SciFi/Fantasy realms. . .

On December 17, 1958, Wendell F. Moore made the first tethered jet pack flight, well after the timeline of our CS Universe, however. . .

Early in the 30s pulp magazine stories we began to see Rocket wearing heros flying across the country to defeat the minions of mad scientists and evil nations. In the 40s & 50s we got to see our "Rocket Suited" hereos, The Rocket Men and their clone, Commander Cody, flying across the silver screen in serial after serial. . . The Rocket Pack and later Jet Pack had wormed it's way into the Americana mythos.

To this very day rumors persist that Howard Hughes designed a top secret Rocket Pack system for the US Army. Suposedly it was intended at first as a pilot "Escape System" and them later as an "Airborne Infantry Infiltration System". Whether or not it is true we likely won't ever know, but that legend formed the basis of comic book creater Dave Stevens' (July 29, 1955 – March 11, 2008) for the adventures of his "Aerial Ace" Cliff Secord, AKA The Rocketeer who not only starred in the comic book but also in a 1991 feature film of the same name by Joe Johnston and Walt Disney Pictures.

The Rocketeer story works out just fine for us. 1938 saw Ace test pilot Cliff Secord, though missadventure involving the mob, comes into possession of the Hughes prototype Rocket Pack which he kept out of Nazi hands and used to foil their foul plot! With the blessings, and aid, of Hughes, Secord went on to continue to fight villiany and foil the Nazi's right up to just before WWII. (The story stops there as the author Stevens died before it could progress further).

The Rocketeer
Image Image


Secord controlled his flight with a special finned helmet which allowed him to steer and control thrust (On or off, no medium setting!). I would have to giver him a top speed of roughly 180MPH but with a limited duration. While he could bear personal firearms the act of aiming would interefere with his aerodynamics as he used his arms to assist in flight control. Even the act of aiming a pistol would make things difficult while under thrust. Perhaps if the pilot were to cut thrust he could coast to an apex and shoot in that moment he was suspended before gravity yarded him back down!

Anyway, I just love the genre and feel that it would fit right in with Crimson Skies, particularly if the Nation of Hollywood were to suddenly spring it on the world at large! The Movie is filled with fast air planes, barnstorming, stunt flying, gun fights, a pretty girl and even a zeppelin! What more could a fella want?

Edit Notes: The image links were failing so I saved them to my photobucket account and edited this post to repost them.
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Re: Jetpacks!!

Postby setbb.com » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:52 pm

Thom Wrote
I had really hoped that this thread would spark interest, but no one has bitten!

Whats up with that guys? Don't think Rocket Packs are cool?

Hollywood airborne infantry flashing up to board an enemy zeppelin?

Or perhaps the Rocket Pack should be rare or prohibitively expensive? Maybe even costing more than a plane as they use expensive high technology components?

I like that they offer amazing mobility but little offensive ability, but in reality they are more story fluff for the genre as they offer little actual game useage.


Grant Wrote
Lol. Just been busy ;) always mean to comment, and I been working on a few non-CS related things.

I guess....jetpacks are okay..But for me at least on the extreme side of pulpish.

I am thinking of running a pure pulp type thing...in which it would be usable. (Exmple, Lightning guns, German Walker tanks,etc,etc.) and it would fit right in.

To me otherwise, ti would be extremely pulp....Plus I can't think of a way to add it in? Possibly launched from a cargo plane and then to board a zeppelin? I dunno.


Thom Wrote
I know what you mean bro. . . There is "Pulp" and then there is "Pulp!" the latter being when you cross over the SciFi line. . .


Phoenix Wrote
Actually, I believe that Wings of Honor has rules for jetpack equipped troopers. It also has rules for things like lightning guns, sonic cannons, and outer-space monsters. Now that's pulp.


Thom Wrote
Just ran across these guys from[url]http://www.victoryforce.com]Victory Force Miniatures[/url] and thought they were perfect for this thread!

Sky Rocket Youth Pack
Image

Listed as an officer & four youths, they would work fine as a squad of airborne troopers. They soooo totaly look the era! Imagine those five gents as a Dixie squad flying newly purchased, British made rocket packs!


Grant Wrote
look interesting....Maybe I'll have to skim a fwe mini's around


Thom Wrote
Just read that the Germans were developing their own rocket packs in the 30s. They were really more of an assisted jump pack as they were intended to provide small bursts of thrust to allow field engineers to take strides up to 24m at a time to "jump" over minefields. Thats way cool!


Thom Wrote
Update: The concept behind the German rocket leapers (Auf Sprunger or "On Springs") was to take a man weighing 180 lbs with his equipment and give him a rocket with 175 lbs thrust. This would enable him to leap with his full strength and an effective weight of only five lbs. In effect he would be taking huge strides like the moon walking astronauts!

Ok I realise that this has little application for Crimson Skies, but the whole idea is way cool so I thought I would share that with you!


Thom Wrote
In another thread, Thom wrote:
. . . <Snip!> . . . "The Rocketeer". . . <Snip!>. . .fits in nicely with the CS Genre.

Pulp Figures features some excellent Crimson Skies resources and they provide free rules download. Interestingly, the game includes miniature combat rules for Rocket Assisted Infantry Launchers (Rocketeer type troops) of the US Rocket Corps, Mercenary Gyro Raiders and other assorted pulp era troops along with Mad Scientists and thugs. I think these rules might provide a good ruleset to adopt for individual and small unit ground combat.


I thought I would move this here where it can apply to the this thread.

From Pulp Figures(http://www.pulpfigures.com/main.php) The Americans: (Perhaps from The Empire State or Hollywood?)
Image

Image

Image


And of course these guys from Victory Force Miniatures as British & Dixie troops.
http://www.victoryforce.com/
ImageThese guys are just way too cool to not have a place in The Crimson Skies!


Grant Wrote
Sorta interesting alright


Cyagen Wrote
There are also German rocket troops in the Gear Krieg fig line of dream pod 9.


Thom Wrote
I did think about the Gear Krieg line as well as the AE WWII line and the SOTR Weird WWII 1949 from Westwind Productions. but I decided that (From my point of view) they were all a bit too hard corp SciFi. Still though, they could be used for pulp genere. The AE WWII stuff from Darkson Designs are not too far off really.


AE WWII American Rocket Troopers
Image

Image

Part of my issue with Gear Krieg is that they are 15mm scale and I prefer the 25-28mm ranges.

German Rocket Troops: Image American Heli Troops Image

Nazi Drop Troop (Armor): This guy seems too far out of range.
Image

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Re: Jetpacks!!

Postby Biggles125 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:01 pm

Another cool thread started by Thom. I wish I'd dicovered this site a year ago. Still better late than never. Jet packs would be ideal for boarding zeps, as in 'Behind the Crimson Veil'.

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Re: Jetpacks!!

Postby Biggles125 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:38 pm

Just checked out the new 'Personalities' section at Pulp figures. The crash Conners, Buzz Barker and Dangerous Dames packs would be perfect for CS. Especially like the aviatrix.

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Re: Jetpacks!!

Postby Grant » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:43 pm

Jetpacks are sorta neat but....

I dunno..there's pulp gaming and then there's PUUUUUHHLLP gaming.

Lol. I've looked at the pulpfigures website. I liked the mini's but had to cut my order short.

Mid February or so I'll probably make up another order.

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Re: Jetpacks!!

Postby Thom » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:41 am

I really like the idea of having differing technologies for the Jetpacks of various nations. With Russia being the first country to really perfect the working helicopter, the Helipack concept seems natural for them. Used by both the Reds & Whites, it would offer superb vertical handling along with rapid directional & facing changes, but poor flight speed. Hollywood & Allies might use the winged aircraft control surfaces. Not so nimble as the Heli's but much faster in forward flight (Think Rocketman or the Rocketeer's). The British Jumpacks would offer a compromise between both extremes. We also know that the Nazi's conceived the first Jumpers in our world, they were designed to allow infantry to make large leaps over minefields and and terrain obstacles but they were never deployed beyond testing quantities as production and training was deemed to expensive for common infantry. So, perhaps the German packs of Crimson Skies should be more oriented towards that purpose, allowing their troops to make huge leaps, say from the ground up to a zeppelin or vica-versa, maybe deployed more like a parachute for air crews. But we all know those tricky Nazi's were never satisfied with just ONE design! I really think the Jetpack concept fit perfectly into our SciFi /Airpunk /Pulpy genre and we need to find a way to integrate them into the game.
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Re: Jetpacks!!

Postby Biggles125 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:43 pm

Grant wroteColonJetpacks are sorta neat but....

I dunno..there's pulp gaming and then there's PUUUUUHHLLP gaming.

Lol. I've looked at the pulpfigures website. I liked the mini's but had to cut my order short.

Mid February or so I'll probably make up another order.


PUUUUHHLLP you say? :o Lemme see, Sonic Rockets, Harpoon rockets, BeeperSeeker rockets, Drill head rockets, these all seem pretty PUUUULLHHP to me. I'm surprised FASA didn't come up with an Electro rocket, that would have been quite shocking. So as far as I'm concerned Rocket packs fit in well with the CS continuum. Mind you no one is twisting anyone's arm to use them. :D

Thom I like your idea of different jetpack tech for different nations. Anyone got any house rules for Rocket packs? I'd be interested in seeing them.

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Re: Jetpacks!!

Postby Grant » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:04 am

Lol, Iagainst anyone using them. And for a lark I would try any rules made for them :mrgreen:

P.S. I refuse to equip any of my pilots with harpoon, drill head and beeper-seeker rockets....Those are overboard pulp to me ;)

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Re: Jetpacks!!

Postby Thom » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:40 pm

Since it remains in the spirit of this thread, I decided to continue the thread with the post of this gem from PopSci Mar 1940!

The drawing is rather crude in that it depicts no controls or important bits like a fuel tank, but the idea remains valid. With the accelerated technology curve of Crimson Skies, this could have easily appeared in the mid to late 1930s.

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/one-man-helicopters-give-soldiers-wings/

Image

Whats fascinating to me is that something this simple without the motor could serve as a "Rota-Chute" or personal gyro glider as an escape system from a dying airship. With more control than a parachute and better range as a decent glider, the user would be better able to get to a safe landing place.

But the powered unit, well it could represent a whole new method of piracy. Imagine an urban gang equipped with these, leaping from skyscraper rooftops to attack slowly maneuvering airships above a city! Or better, clouds of flying infantry bailing out of an airship to swarm an unsuspecting community or ground target, or even another airship.

It's just too cool for me to let go of this idea! :D
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Re: Jetpacks!!

Postby Carthaginian » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:45 am

Again, truth is at least as strange as fiction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_VZ-1_Pawnee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lackner_HZ-1_Aerocycle
Both of these single-person 'flying platforms' were tested by the US Army, but never actually entered use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VZ-8_Airgeep
This was for a flying 'jeep'- meant to be used by the 'common soldier' for high-speed scouting.
Something like this might be trialed in limited numbers in the CS universe... though in RL, money will be an issue.
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