Nation of Utah (Deseret) & Its Protectorates

Got history/background for a region in CS? let us know. (Also includes re-interpretations of Canon if you wish)
Jerba
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Nation of Utah (Deseret) & Its Protectorates

Postby Jerba » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:44 pm

Hey guys! I'm new here, but have great excitement about the Crimson Skies Universe and want to help.

I am a Utah boy (now living in Virginia) but of course my interest lies with the nation of Utah and what it consists of (regionalism really drives this game for me!). I spent hours this week looking at census records of Utah, Idaho, Nevada, Arizona, and Wyoming and numerous other demographics indicators (especially focusing on religion) to locate the heavily Mormon counties of those states. Based on that I figured the relative borders, or claimed/disputed areas, that the nation of Utah would have an interest in protecting based on Mormon poulation.

Based on the areas of southern Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, and a touch of Arizona that have heavy Mormon populations, the census records and common sense I came to the following conclusion: Utah itself had a population of about 537,571 in 1937; adding in the Mormon Counties from other states they add up to a total population of 978,455 (367,209 in Idaho, 41,865 in Wyoming, 29, 706 in Nevada, and about 2,104 in Arizona). Now this is where the fun part comes in! I put my findings on a google map drawing in rough borders following the counties with Mormon settlements.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8& ... 662109&z=4

You'll see that I have added a great deal to the canon based on (arguably better) research than has previously done. I also created my own squadron assignments that probably don't reflect the actual game other than the Ogden Legion. I just barely read the Spicy Helium War story and am a bit confused by all of the talk about the "Alliance of Utah Enclaves" so the map doesn't reflect that or the Lambs of God, who I see more of an expeditionary force. Also, for the record "Utah" should be called Deseret and the flag would never have a cross on it, it would have a beehive. Though a Christian nation, Mormons do not use the cross as a symbol on our buildings and would never use it on the flag.

Anyway, I'm interested in being the resident Utah expert and beefing up my section to reflect more of the backstory. Any info in the main FASA sourcebook would be very helpful!

Thoughts? Info I left out or forgot? Contentions?


EDIT 3/28/2012: Additions to the Deseret Canon

Name of Utah should be Deseret. This is consistent with the history of Mormon settlement in the Mountain West when Brigham Young (who led the Mormons west) originally established the Deseret Territory and petitioned for the state to be named Deseret.

Deseret's flag would be more like this. Below is the historic Mormon Pioneer flag that was developed in the 1800's and is flown at some Mormon pioneer historical sites.
Image
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Igor
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Re: Nation of Utah & Its Protectorates

Postby Igor » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:37 am

The depth of research that you've put into this is truly impressive! And using Google Earth is a great idea! Now if Grant can just find The French Maravellas ...

I don't think I could match your research but since it is a dynamic thing perhaps we could put the commonly used map on here and then adapt it with later research? We could add fictional places as well like Sky Haven and Midnight's Heart.

Cheers

Igor

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Thom
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Re: Nation of Utah & Its Protectorates

Postby Thom » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:54 am

Nice Map! I tried to do the same thing for my "Laredo" region but I kept messing it up! Your borders could fit nicely with my "Big Sky Republic" and "Comstock" regions as well!
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Grant
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Re: Nation of Utah & Its Protectorates

Postby Grant » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:40 pm

I been trying!!!

I think they disappeared in the 40's.....Maybe that's where the US first tried the atmoic bomb? But it was so pwowerful they had to lessen to to the 1945 version :D

Anyway, great work jerba!! A lot of thought put into it.

Jerba
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Re: Nation of Utah & Its Protectorates

Postby Jerba » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:18 pm

Thom wroteColonNice Map! I tried to do the same thing for my "Laredo" region but I kept messing it up! Your borders could fit nicely with my "Big Sky Republic" and "Comstock" regions as well!

Igor wroteColonThe depth of research that you've put into this is truly impressive! And using Google Earth is a great idea! Now if Grant can just find The French Maravellas ...

I don't think I could match your research but since it is a dynamic thing perhaps we could put the commonly used map on here and then adapt it with later research? We could add fictional places as well like Sky Haven and Midnight's Heart.

Cheers

Igor


Hey folks, thanks for the encouragement! I would be more than happy to have you help me on the maps or add your own territories, even the marivellas! If you'd like me too add something send me a description or image of where you want it. If you want to add it yourself let me know, if you send me your gmail address and I'll add you as a contributor to the map.

My plan is to add all the classic Crimson Skies canon first and get other things on there as it develops. Is there a reference as to where Midnights Heart and Sky Haven are?

Also, I'd be more than happy to add it to the site here! Feel free to use it.

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Grant
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Re: Nation of Utah & Its Protectorates

Postby Grant » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:20 am

Midnights Heart? Where is that mentioned?

I may work on my own world map sometime, but I don't think everyone should add to it ;) Unless there is explicitly non-conflicting areas. OR pre-agreed upon divisioning.

No offence, ;) I just saw once where something similar turned into a furball after people got into disagreements :roll:

My own version of the area fits in pretty well, a few small clashes but nothing major.

I may try to speed up my "Lakota Wars" topic and see how that fits :D

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Thom
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Re: Nation of Utah & Its Protectorates

Postby Thom » Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:49 pm

I had always assumed that Sky Haven was in the area of Black Eagle, not far from Denver, but it could just as easily be placed anywhere. . . Pike's Peak or Cheyenne Mountain for example.
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Patrick
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Re: Nation of Utah & Its Protectorates

Postby Patrick » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:38 pm

Very nice! Sorry I missed this one in my initial scan of the Regions forum.

I was referencing the squadron name of the Deseret/Utah fliers from the Spicy Tales Great Helium War story (they didn't like Texan cussing one bit!) who would probably be utilized in similar expeditionary fashion in a Mexico or Arixo related fight.


I figured as much. I lived in Provo when I bought my first Crimson Skies boxed set and mailed FASA my proposal for the Texas sourcebook from that address, so I am pretty familiar with the area (and how they would see themselves in a CS world.) By reading your posts, you have an even better grip on that than I do, so I am glad to read your thoughts here.

This is kind of inspiring me to take up the back story of the Deseret Territory a little more. I started it a bit here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=296


I like your Google Maps work and your research. Nicely done! It's too bad FASA and Crimson Skies hadn't survived into the one-sourcebook-for-every-nation phase. You would have been a good candidate to write it.

Of course, I really dislike the Utah Flag that made it into the CS canon. The cross is indeed a Christian symbol but is not used in Mormon symbology for a variety of reasons. A better alternative would have been:


Agreed. Blue and white (BYU colors and the state flag colors) would work. No cross on the flag (or anywhere else), and I'm not sure why they picked Germany-type colors either.

My views of CS Utah would go something like this: Texas secedes, the other nations go their way, per CS canon. Utah becomes independent and changes their name to Deseret (the name they wanted for their state when they asked to join the nation originally). They put out a clarion call for a second gathering of saints, and every member that could safely travel to Utah would relocate there as soon as possible. Due to the influenza and tight borders, citizens would trickle in slowly over the rest of the 30s. The flag in my opinion would either be a blue flag with a white beehive ("industry") or a silhouette of an angel with a trump.

I think Utah's primary antagonist would be Colorado. None of the other nations immediately surrounding Utah would have a problem with them, and I could see the Navajo nation, a significant portion of the disputed territories, and Arixo as casual allies. the trouble would mostly stem from Mormon colonies expanding their size and territory as they grew inside the borders of other nations.

Jerba
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Re: Nation of Utah & Its Protectorates

Postby Jerba » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:47 pm

Patrick, were you going to school at the time in Provo? I'm from Southern Utah, the St. George Area.

As for the research and a Utah source book, it's not too late right? :) I have some more stuff that I hand wrote that I need to find and transcribe. I have a lot of stuff that I've thought about and would love to put up here. Maybe I'll start formalizing things a bit. I appreciate the kind words.

I see Colorado as the main adversary as well. The pirates, bootleggers, and general nogoodniks are a common theme in CS and fairly well documented elsewhere. In Southern Utah I would see the fundamentalist polygamists as a threat and something that the Utah government would want to keep contained. For the most part they would probably leave each other alone, but I can see the polygamists causing trouble in northern Arixo or with the Navajo that might bring problems to Utah.

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Re: Nation of Utah (Deseret) & Its Protectorates

Postby Patrick » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:24 pm

Maybe I'll start formalizing things a bit.


I would be interested in seeing what you could come up with.


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