CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Expanded/Home Rules for Crimson Skies
yahzuk
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby yahzuk » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:44 am

The fluff piece is very awesome.

Obviously I'm biased towards my own system. I think you've simplified things, but at the expense of customization. I don't mind the extra complexity in my rules, because I don't think they're more complicated by much, and also because its "outside of game" complexity, not "inside game" complexity.

But, diversity of opinion is one of the strengths of a fan community!

Looking foward to seeing your cost system.

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captnmartin
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby captnmartin » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:10 pm

Thanks man,

What customization features do you miss? My primary concern was airship shape/size, so in making the rules I had a few ground rules so to speak, namely build the zeps on cell size, each cell is three hexes, the directional stability fins occupy the final hex on cell 4. I also didn't want to go to much into weight, since I've found when balancing very large numbers, or multiple sets of numbers (18 x .70 cal for example) people get turned off, so I tried to make everything involve one very simple piece of addition or subtraction. The fluff went partially into explaining away the arbitrary rules decisions I made, but I know there are a few rough edges, which is why I'm looking for criticism.

Another issue I had for in game consideration was where turrets and what not were located on a zep, as well as engines. I also like to make systems without a lot of excess, everything has a base, and you add onto that, rather than having a plethora of starting points.

One question that kept coming up was how many planes are in a zep. I don't think we've ever had official input on this aspect, so I made a best guess estimate.

yahzuk
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby yahzuk » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:30 pm

Yeh, just a difference of opinion. I liked the variable lengths/widths and the variable gun configurations. The added complexity doesn't bother me because its only outside of the game when you're setting a zeppelin up. I don't see any added complexity when you're actually playing the game.

As far as how many planes, the only canon material I'm aware of is Pride of The Republic states a San Jacinto Class hodls 18 planes and a Republic class hold 36. Its implied that an Echo class holds some planes but less than the San Jacinto, and the Legacy likely holds more than the Republic but I don't recall seeing an official number.

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captnmartin
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby captnmartin » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:44 pm

Hmmm, Maybe I'll have to allow a 'Heavy Hangar' to get the numbers up to 36 or more potentially.

I'm trying to remember why I took out width, there was a reason, I just can't recall it. Out of curiosity, does the current rules incarnation run the correct balance on systems, or is it too liberal, or too confining? What I'm getting at is whether or not you (and others) think that as is, it's too easy to build an uber zep, or too hard to build a halfway decent zep?

yahzuk
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby yahzuk » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:03 am

Well, here is my attempt to recreate my Zephir class design in your system:

11x2 --> 16 hexes --> 5 gas cells --> 5x10 = 50 pts max
required components --> docking clamp, control, cabin, control surfaces --> 4 pts
8 eng per my system --> 5 engines per yours, not sure differnce between you reg engines and mil engines, assumed reg --> 5x2 --> 10 pts
crew cabins --> 5x1 --> 5 pts
heavy guns --> 5x2 --> 10 pts
flak canons --> 1x5 --> 5 pts
18 planes in my system --> 5x1 --> 5 pts, 2- planes in yours
armor --> 5x1 --> 5 pts

total --> 44 pts, max was 50 so this is OK

So it seems to work OK for "width 2" zeppelins in my system, but I don't know how to model the width 1, 3, or 4 zepps. In my system I can put together a design in about 15 minutes. I was able to do yours in about 5 minutes after familiarizing myself with the rules. So you saved me 10 minutes, but I had to give up all my width 1,3,4 zepps. If you were saving me 10 minutes per game turn, that would have a huge value to me. But I have plenty of time in bewteen games, so saving me 10 minutes outside of the game has much less value to me. Not enough to justify all the design options I'd have to give up.

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captnmartin
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby captnmartin » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:32 am

Allright, these are just an early alpha, so there's plenty of time to fine-tune. I'm going to re-read your rules and see how much customization they allow, and how they affect in game situations. Then, I'll try to emulate that freedom as much as possible. The current design goal remains High Customization, and Simple but not Simplistic. Ideally, I'd like everyone to be able to make the zep they see in their mind, but without any 'uber' designs. I've always seen every FASA design system to be about compromise. I can get the 'Big Guns' but I'm either going to be slow, or have little armour. That balancing act is what makes design fun, and that's what I'm hoping the end product will be.

I really appreciate your help and feedback so far!

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Grant
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby Grant » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:35 am

I like your system too Captain.

However once you've built 3-4 zeppelins with Yahzuks system, it becomes ridiculously simple.

I've got around...30? built as of now. A little differant than Yahzuks as I count squadrons as 12 aircraft instead of 9. On average they're 25-40% faster.


Captain, I will be the first to say, I apologize. I'm willing to test out any master rules,etc, but I suck at making up rules. The Personal Combat stuff I'm posting tomorrow will show the lack of skill at building it.

yahzuk
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby yahzuk » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:34 am

Grant - I'd love to see some of your desgins sometime!

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captnmartin
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby captnmartin » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:18 pm

Captain, I will be the first to say, I apologize. I'm willing to test out any master rules,etc, but I suck at making up rules. The Personal Combat stuff I'm posting tomorrow will show the lack of skill at building it


Don't worry dude, this is a collaborative project, we're aiming to have the most complete rule set for crimson skies ever produced. Part of that is testing, so even if your system has a few 'bugs' playtesting and suggestions from the rest of us will mold your initial vision into an important component of the CMR!

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Grant
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Re: CMR- Crimson Skies Master Rules

Postby Grant » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:03 am

I am compiling them right now Yahzuk :mrgreen: I'm writing a "Zeppelin's essay of classes", covering Germany, Britain, the most prominant North American zeppelins.

it'll have about 20 zeppelins when it's done, from light patrol, to super combat zeppelins Bismarck and Vanguard.


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