Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Expanded/Home Rules for Crimson Skies
csadn
PostsCOLON 61
JoinedCOLON Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:26 pm
Are you a Human?COLON Yes
LocationCOLON Sitting down, facing front.

Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby csadn » Sun May 27, 2012 7:40 am

Background: These were to be part of the Pacifica Sourcebook -- the gliders appearing in a scenario where the authorial voice of the s-b gets a little closer to the action than he'd liked; the rocket-fighters to fill the gap left by the ban on jets. The glider rules necessitated altitude rules. These were written before the SMOCS considered the notion of "inverting" the BTN values, as discussed elsewhere, hence the need for the cumbersome "11 - BTN".

ALTITUDE

Altitude is measured in bands, numbered from 0 (lowest) to 9 (highest). A 10-sided-die with the appropriate number facing up placed next to the plane or obstacle can be used to indicate current altitude.

Climbing: A plane can climb no faster than ([current speed] + [current MA]). For each level ascended above MA, deduct 1 from current speed. Ex.: A _Defender_ plots speed 3 (its maximum) this turn; it can ascend 1, 2, 3, or 4 levels, to a maximum altitude of 9. If it ascends 1 level, it may plot any speed-3 move; if it ascends 2 levels, it may plot any speed-2 move; if it ascends 3 levels, it may plot any speed-1 move; if it ascends 4 levels, it may plot any speed-0 move (with attendant effects).

Descending: A plane may descend any number of levels; however, each level descended in excess of its MG rating adds 1G to the G-cost of the move. Each level descended adds 1 to the plane's speed that turn; the plane's maximum deceleration may be used to counter the speed increase. Ex.: The _Defender_ has a MG of 4; it may descend 4 levels straight ahead without Pushing Gs, or 3 levels on a 1G move without Pushing Gs, etc. However, each level descended also increases the plane's speed; so if it is traveling Speed 3, it can only descend 2 levels before reaching the maximum-allowed speed of 5; but the player may use the plane's inherent deceleration of 2 to cancel out 2 speed levels. [Ed. Note: Optionally, the "overspeed" rule under Rocket Fighter Movement may be employed.]

Each level ascended/descended adds 1G to the maneuver plotted. To indicate how many levels are ascended/descended, write the number of levels ascended/descended. Make a note in brackets after the plot of the effect on the unit's speed. Ex.: A 3R3C+2[1] indicates a 3R3C with a 2-level gain in altitude, and indicates the plane is "speed 1"; a 3R3C-2[5] indicates a 3R3C with a 2-level loss of altitude, and is "speed 5".

Random Movement: For each hex of random movement, lose 1 altitude level, but do not add to effective speed. (The tumbling of the unit bleeds off speed.)

Movement Example: The _Defender_ pilot is moving at speed 3, and altitude 4, when he finds enemy units behind and 1 level above him. He decides to climb and whip around. He is at Speed 3, with MA 1; he can ascend no more than [3 + 1 =] 4 levels, to a maximum of 8; as this is below the maximum ceiling of 9, he has no restrictions there. He decides to plot a 2R0D+2[2], to face the foe and put them below him. The 2R0D move is 5G; the 2-level climb adds 2G, for a total of 7G, 3 more than the _Defender_'s MG4, so he must roll for Pushing Gs. (We will assume he succeeds.)

On the next turn, the foes have scattered; the _Defender_ player takes after one of them. He wishes to plot a 3L3F-4, accelerating 1 from his speed of 2. The 3L3F is 1G; however, the dive is 4G, and moreover adds 4 to his effective speed, placing him at Speed 7 for the next turn, which exceeds the maximum-allowed speed of 5 He instead plots a 2SF-4 -- this is a 0G move, plus 4G for the dive; and he may use his plane's deceleration of 2 to cancel out 2 of the levels of speed gained by the dive, placing him at Speed 5 (which is still 2 more than his plane's MS3). In the move-plot box, he writes 2SF-4[5] This turn, he must roll for Pushes twice -- once for exceeding his maximum speed by 2, once for performing two 3+G moves in succession. He could have risked a third Push roll, this time for stalling the plane so he could lose more of the speed gain from the dive. (Again, we will assume he succeeds at both rolls.)

Combat Effect: Each difference in altitude between firer and target equals one hex of range. Ex: A target three hexes away, and two altitude levels away, is at an effective range of 5. Units in the same hex but at different altitudes may fire at each other (the pilot kicks the nose up or down as needed).

Collisions/Rams: In order to collide or ram, both units must be at the same altitude, as well as being in the same hex.

Zeppelins: Despite their size, zeps only occupy one altitude level.

Obstructions: A normal obstruction occupies all altitude levels from 0 up to its indicated "altitude". Some unusual obstructions may have gaps at certain altitudes (ex.: A canyon may occupy levels 0, 1, 3, and 4; level 2 is a gap eroded by wind over time); these can be indicated as the players see fit.

GLIDERS

Construction: Gliders may be fixed-wing, or gyros*. MA is always 0; do not allocate mass for this stat. MS cost and mass are both 0.1x normal (round normally).Towplanes must be equipped with a Towplane Hook (per BTN of glider permitted to be towed: $750; 75 lbs.). Due to practical limitations, Towplanes may not tow more than one Glider at a time.

Movement:

A Towplane towing a Glider may not perform a maneuver of greater than 1G; if it does, the tow is broken.
If either plane of the pair must Push Gs, the tow automatically breaks.
Towplane and Glider occupy a single hex, and face the same direction at all times. Collision is not possible.
When released, Glider acts as an airplane with no functioning engine. It must land when Speed = 0; it may land when Speed = 1.
Glider Release occurs in Step One of the turn; releasing the Glider does not preclude either pilot performing other tasks.
Glider begins plotting its own moves immediately upon release.
Once separated, the Towplane and the Glider may maneuver freely (within normal limits).
While towing, MS of the pair is reduced to [(MS of towplane) - ((11 - Towplane BTN) + (11 - Glider BTN))/(11 - Towplane BTN), round down]. If result is 0 or less, Towplane may not tow Glider.

Combat:

While connected, Glider may not fire out hex-facing A; Towplane may not fire out hex-facing D.
If incoming fire arrives through hex-facing A, Towplane must be targeted; if arriving through hex-facing D, Glider must be targeted.

(*: Since gyro rotors are unpowered, there is no problem with torque.)

ROCKET FIGHTERS

Construction: Fixed-wing only; no gyros. Uses Rear-Engine Fighter template.
Engine -- per (11 - BTN) of unit: Cost: $1,000; mass 100 lbs.
Fuel -- per point: $100; 50 lbs. (Ex.: 40 pts. fuel: $4,000; 2,000 lbs.)
MS: 0.1x normal cost and mass.
MA: not allocated; all rocket-powered units have MA3, with Poor Throttle SA.
May not use engine-related SA, or Extra Fuel Tanks.
Units may be towed into combat by Towplanes, as per Glider rules.

Movement: During plotting phase, the unit may accelerate (as "MA" above), or decelerate a minimum of 1; it cannot maintain speed.
Each acceleration uses (11 - BTN) fuel points.
If unit plots a speed of 6 or more, the move must be [n]SA. If unit is at Speed 6+, and is forced to perform any maneuver besides [n]SA, unit is automatically destroyed (bailout BTN 20). Note this will force a MS5 design to Push Top Speed.

Fuel Tanks: The unit must designate the wing, and fuselage, tanks as either "solid-fuel" or "liquid-fuel" tanks; all tanks of a given type must hold the same fuel type (ex.: if "wing tanks are solid-fuel", then all "wing tank" damage boxes are considered to have solid fuel in them, and all "fuselage tank" boxes are then liquid-fuel tanks).
When solid fuel is hit, treat as a non-fuel-tank box (MG has no add'l effect, etc.).
When liquid fuel is hit by any damage, unit is destroyed (bailout BTN 20).

Designs:

Flare: BTN 8 ($3,750); MS5 ($235; 120 lbs.); MG5 ($2,550; 1,200 lbs.). Engine: ($3,000; 300 lbs.); 18 pts. fuel ($1,800; 900 lbs.). Armor: 6 pts. [ea. facing; 1] ($150; 180 lbs.). 2x 0.30-cal. [3, 4] ($360; 300 lbs.); 3x Hardpoint ($150). G-Efficient Cockpit ($250); Fire-Linked Weapons [3, 4] ($36). $12,209.

Skybolt: BTN 1 ($250); MS3 ($141; 330 lbs.); MG3 ($1,530; 3,900 lbs.). Engine: ($10,000; 1,000 lbs.); 60 pts. fuel ($6,000; 3,000 lbs.). Armor: 29 pts. [F, FL, FR, AL, AR: 5: A: 4] ($725; 870 lbs.). 1x 0.60-cal. [3] ($590; 600 lbs.); 2x 0.30-cal. [6, 7] ($360; 300 lbs.); 10x Hardpoint ($500). $20,096.
CF

User avatar
Thom
PostsCOLON 1005
JoinedCOLON Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby Thom » Sun May 27, 2012 7:23 pm

Wow! Some long thought went into this, very nice!

Lots of info to digest here, but on first glance the altitude rules seem workable.

Gliders and Rota vehicles are a pet love of mine, glad to see someone else likes them!
The military did some double and triple towed glider experiments in WWII with each trailing behind in a string like a train, but the tail end glider always got badly buffeted and beat up from a "Crack the Whip" type of movement so they gave it up. Seems to me if you could get your tow lines long enough, then you could eliminate that problem, like a tugboat and barge, they let out line until their wakes work with each other instead of fighting each other.

Drooling for Rocket Planes! The Japanese could make the ultimate Kamikaze plane with these beauties!


Wonderful stuff here!
Flying the Crimson Skies

csadn
PostsCOLON 61
JoinedCOLON Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:26 pm
Are you a Human?COLON Yes
LocationCOLON Sitting down, facing front.

Re: Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby csadn » Mon May 28, 2012 6:06 am

Thom wroteColonWow! Some long thought went into this, very nice!


Thought -- and a buttload of research. On the old CS Forum, I was known as "The Professor"; There Is A Reason For This. >:)

Thom wroteColonGliders and Rota vehicles are a pet love of mine, glad to see someone else likes them!


At the time, they were seen as viable military units -- less dispersal and more control than parachutes. While this turned out to be not strictly correct (two words: "Rommel's asparagus" :) ), they did serve reasonably well.

I especially like the idea of allowing gyro-gliders; the Focke-Achgelis Fa 225 and Fa 330 actually existed, but are sufficiently little-known that I can "borrow" the idea and not be so obvious with my "history with the serial numbers filed off". :)

The scenario mentioned in the notes features Hollywood gliders being used in an assault on a zep carrying a figure of great importance to Pacifica (tho' not even the attackers know just how important he is). Yes, gliders can be "landed" atop a zep's gasbag -- grapples are used to slow and secure the glider; then, when the zep has been plundered and the troops return, the grapples are released, and the gliders slide off and glide away. :)

Thom wroteColonThe military did some double and triple towed glider experiments in WWII with each trailing behind in a string like a train, but the tail end glider always got badly buffeted and beat up from a "Crack the Whip" type of movement so they gave it up.


Those were considered, as well as the infamous "troikaschlepp" for the Me 321; this is why the rules specifically state: One Towplane, One Glider, Zero Exceptions. :)

Thom wroteColonSeems to me if you could get your tow lines long enough, then you could eliminate that problem, like a tugboat and barge, they let out line until their wakes work with each other instead of fighting each other.


Nope -- the problem's the wake turbulence from the preceding unit; it's what breaks the line and/or connecting hook. The amount of line required to get, and stay, out of the wake is impractical.

Thom wroteColonDrooling for Rocket Planes! The Japanese could make the ultimate Kamikaze plane with these beauties!


Not *quite* what I had in mind -- and *definitely* not what the designers had in mind*. Think in terms of the notions for German point-defense rocketplanes (Bachem Ba 349 "Natter", for ex.)

[*: Among my many discussion with Herr Trautmann: Kamikazes are a no-go -- the implications of appearing to encourage the kiddie-winkies to commit suicide... well, you figure it out. In fact, in general, the "historic" Japanese behavior of the period was to be markedly toned-down -- no "rape of Nanking", no Unit 731, etc.; the same applied to Germany, which is part of why Kaiser Wilhelm II is still around. And this was *before* the Great Lawn-Darting of 2001 made "glorifying aerial piracy and hijackings" Dude-Not-Funny material.]

Thom wroteColonWonderful stuff here!


Thanks.
CF

User avatar
[GSS]Bandit
PostsCOLON 90
JoinedCOLON Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:46 pm
Are you a Human?COLON Yes
LocationCOLON German Kaiserreich

Re: Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby [GSS]Bandit » Tue May 29, 2012 6:44 am

Yeah, lots of good stuff here! Have to keep an eye on this thread :)

Did you test-play the altitudes or do you already use them on a regular basis? I'd really like to know how they worked out.
Many happy landings!

User avatar
Cyagen
PostsCOLON 341
JoinedCOLON Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:53 pm
LocationCOLON République of Québec

Re: Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby Cyagen » Tue May 29, 2012 7:04 pm

Nice work here!

Thom wroteColonDrooling for Rocket Planes! The Japanese could make the ultimate Kamikaze plane with these beauties!


[quote=csadn]Not *quite* what I had in mind -- and *definitely* not what the designers had in mind*. Think in terms of the notions for German point-defense rocketplanes (Bachem Ba 349 "Natter", for ex.)

[*: Among my many discussion with Herr Trautmann: Kamikazes are a no-go -- the implications of appearing to encourage the kiddie-winkies to commit suicide... well, you figure it out. In fact, in general, the "historic" Japanese behavior of the period was to be markedly toned-down -- no "rape of Nanking", no Unit 731, etc.; the same applied to Germany, which is part of why Kaiser Wilhelm II is still around. And this was *before* the Great Lawn-Darting of 2001 made "glorifying aerial piracy and hijackings" Dude-Not-Funny material.[/quote]

Actually, in the pulp context you need evil guys. Not much has been written about CS Japan but I guess there is a conter-part to the Unit 731 folk in the Empire.

From my POV, in Germany you got the SA and the NSDAP clowns but they are more the Indiana Jones type than the final solution type. The Kaiser mainly give the old Prussian officer class another figure to get attached to until a charismatic leader comes out from their rank (Rommel IMHO). The tipping point in 1030s Germany was the officers going to the NSDAP. So now you still have your vilians without getting into dicey territory.

But this is just my opinion...
Malphas, over and out

csadn
PostsCOLON 61
JoinedCOLON Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:26 pm
Are you a Human?COLON Yes
LocationCOLON Sitting down, facing front.

Re: Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby csadn » Wed May 30, 2012 8:05 am

[GSS]Bandit wroteColonDid you test-play the altitudes or do you already use them on a regular basis? I'd really like to know how they worked out.


I played them; but I was never able to get any blind-testing done [hint, hint, hint :) ].

Cyagen wroteColonActually, in the pulp context you need evil guys. Not much has been written about CS Japan but I guess there is a conter-part to the Unit 731 folk in the Empire.


There may be -- but anything which resembles Historical Atrocities was strictly off-limits. For ex.: I was working on some stuff for the three-way war in China. Knowing Unit 731 and that sort of thing wasn't allowed, I went for "similar, but less graphic"; in this case, the Japanese are not trying to wipe out the Chinese altogether, but are trying to bring them into the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere by a combination of destroying military resistance, while at the same time trying to convince the few who stay behind "you'd be better off under us than under the mandarins". Thus, the historical xenophobic bigotry of the Japanese of the period exists, but in a far-less-obvious -- and bloody -- form. Meanwhile, of course, the Chinese Communists are fighting Japan, but not for the best interests of China as a whole; that honor belongs to "the Szechuan Sage" Chen Kenming, and his group of Shaolin monks, who have not only formed effective units for the Chinese Nationalist army, but are rapidly infiltrating Chiang kai-Shek's forces and... "retiring" those generals and other officers whose incompetence and greed are slowly destroying China. (Yes, this does result in ground battles between Japanese ninjas and Chinese Shaolin warrior-monks.... >;) )

In this case, a unit labeled "Unit 731" would be a small force of Japanese ninjas, tasked with making life difficult for Japan's foes; *not* a force for horrific science experiments on POWs. if any of that sort of thing is going on, it's being done by "loners and quiet guys" who serve no master save themselves (for a period example: The Joker, first incarnation, from the _Batman_ comics).

Cyagen wroteColonFrom my POV, in Germany you got the SA and the NSDAP clowns but they are more the Indiana Jones type than the final solution type. The Kaiser mainly give the old Prussian officer class another figure to get attached to until a charismatic leader comes out from their rank (Rommel IMHO). The tipping point in 1030s Germany was the officers going to the NSDAP. So now you still have your vilians without getting into dicey territory.


Mm -- as noted: In Europe, and esp. Germany, *anything* with "Nazi overtones" can be banned at gov't say-so; that includes even the mere mention of names of the period, as well as iconography. So including "NSDAP" or any other rendition of Nazis could lead to problems which MS flat-out didn't want to deal with. (The Germans can be right bastards about that -- and not entirely unjustifiably; they still have a few of those a**holes running around....) See above for an example of how one can effectively outmaneuver the issue; in this case, eliminate the actual Nazis, and replace with some other "Germany First" group which doesn't see "Germany" in racial or religious terms. For the truly cunning: Do research on the period of chaos following WW1's end; find some small group which in reality got annihilated; then make *them* the "mustache-twirler" group. :)
CF

User avatar
Cyagen
PostsCOLON 341
JoinedCOLON Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:53 pm
LocationCOLON République of Québec

Re: Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby Cyagen » Wed May 30, 2012 6:15 pm

The Thule society would be a cool pulpy weird ersatz. (google it)

Living in Germany I totally understand the issues here that you could not have people painting Swastikas on their planes for any other reason then historical miniatures gaming and even that is borderline.....
Malphas, over and out

csadn
PostsCOLON 61
JoinedCOLON Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:26 pm
Are you a Human?COLON Yes
LocationCOLON Sitting down, facing front.

Re: Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby csadn » Thu May 31, 2012 6:57 am

Cyagen wroteColonThe Thule society would be a cool pulpy weird ersatz. (google it)


I am familiar with them -- unfortunately, one of their central themes was anti-Semitism, so they're non-starters for CS.
CF

User avatar
Cyagen
PostsCOLON 341
JoinedCOLON Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:53 pm
LocationCOLON République of Québec

Re: Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby Cyagen » Thu May 31, 2012 5:38 pm

Just buff over that and put the emphasis of the crazy stuff like hollow earth...

Antisemitism was so rampant in the 1930s that you must either write around it or assume it out of CS.
Malphas, over and out

csadn
PostsCOLON 61
JoinedCOLON Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:26 pm
Are you a Human?COLON Yes
LocationCOLON Sitting down, facing front.

Re: Altitude, Gliders, and Rocket-Fighters, oh my....

Postby csadn » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:42 am

Cyagen wroteColonJust buff over that and put the emphasis of the crazy stuff like hollow earth...

Antisemitism was so rampant in the 1930s that you must either write around it or assume it out of CS.


Tell me about it -- hell, they wouldn't even let people write about the Confederation of Dixie, even tho' *how many* acft. in the Basic Set are shown with Dixie markings, and how many "name" characters were from there? (Didn't stop me writing up why Dixie doesn't have Jim Crow anymore. >:) )
CF


Return to

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 1 and 0 guests

cron