Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Covering the FASA version of Crimson Skies.
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FF5 MadMaxX
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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby FF5 MadMaxX » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:36 am

csadn wroteColon
[GSS]Bandit wroteColonWell, the 2nd Turret SC is intended for the Balmoral from the PC game, so I think it's debatable if it should be added at all.


Which is odd, as part of the original errata for _CS_ mentions a reference to forward-facing turrets; I suspect they were supposed to be there, but got edited at some point (historical units had them).


I found a *.ae file for the "Balmorral" on my harddrive. I think it was done by one of our FF5 members.
And there are only checked the 1&2 and 7&8 guns as turrets.
Its right the weight differ from the pc games version.
but since "Behind the crimson veil" is more actual than the pc game, I think there is no need for the 2nd turret.

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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby [GSS]Bandit » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:10 am

There will be changes to turrets with Z&B? I thought any new rules from that source were for Zeps and Bombers only? (But perhaps Patrick has given you a more detailed preview already...)

Apart from that, I know we're treading difficult ground here, as the construction rules for a 2nd turret or a 360° turret are not explicitly stated anywhere. But let me try to summarize the turret rules (with some speculation involved):

1) Rear turret weighs 400 lbs. Can mount two guns, #7&8. These guns weigh 50% more.
2) Front turret weighs 400 lbs. Can mount two guns, #1&2. These guns weigh 50% more.
3) 360° turret weighs 720 lbs. Can mount two guns, #1&2. These guns weigh 50% more.

regarding 1) Construction rules stated in Aircraft of North America. Limitation to #7&8 learned from record sheet.
regarding 2) Basically the same as 1). Has been officially errataed that only rear turrets are allowed. Has been revised later with the introduction of the Mako. Mako lists guns #1&2 for the front turret.
regarding 3) Deducted from the Monitor. Lists guns #1&2 for the 360° turret. Construction rules applied as far as possible; rest of stats calculated/extrapolated.

So, by this there are several possibilities as what types and combinations of turrets might be possible to mount on a heavy fighter:
A) only one turret allowed
B) two turrets allowed (Balmoral)
C) three turrets allowed (one of each type, no plane of such type ATM)

regarding A) this would actually suffice for all canon planes...
regarding B) different combinations possible: front+rear / front+360° / rear+360°.
regarding C) which weapons would be valid for the 360°, if 1&2+3&4 are blocked by front and rear turrets?

Granted, turret guns are always #1&2 or #7&8, but other then the record sheet, do we have any evidence that the remaining gun slots may not be used? Especially in regard to the 360° turret.

Sorry, if I seem trying to make things more complicated than they probably are or should be :?
That's not my intention, just trying to avoid missing something...

Anyway, what options do you plan to use MadMaxx? Two turrets, with one of them possibly being a 360°?
Many happy landings!

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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby FF5 MadMaxX » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:25 am

[GSS]Bandit wroteColonThere will be changes to turrets with Z&B? I thought any new rules from that source were for Zeps and Bombers only? (But perhaps Patrick has given you a more detailed preview already...)

Patrick just gave me the damage sheets, no more, i am just guessing.
But there is a lot of info you can get from these sheets.
Bombers are also Aircrafts that needs to be contructed within the "Aircraft Window"
So the changes affect also the old data and classes.

Another guess: with Z&B you can construct the "Balmorral" with "official Z&B" rules.

[GSS]Bandit wroteColonAnyway, what options do you plan to use MadMaxx? Two turrets, with one of them possibly being a 360°?


For version 1.0.0 I keep the system as it is.
Aeronaut allows you to put Turrets into every slot, as long it is a Heavy Fighter and the plane is not overloaded.

I just peparing some classes and the data structure for the new rules.
And after I read Z&B I make a decision. As you wrote the turret stuff can be complicated.
But I also want to give as much freedom as possible. So if some one wants 3 turrets on a Heavy Fighter he can do it.

Bombers are added in version 1.1.0
Zeppelins in version 1.2.0

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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby Patrick » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:30 pm

FF5 MadMaxX wroteColonPatrick just gave me the damage sheets, no more, i am just guessing.


I haven't decided yet if I'm going to build the specific sheets for each bomber or not. If I do, I might also make two specific cargo planes (namely the Brahma and the Dragonfly), since those are two that have been mentioned heavily in CS lore. It will depend on how much time it takes to finish the rest of the work.

FF5 MadMaxX wroteColonAnother guess: with Z&B you can construct the "Balmorral" with "official Z&B" rules.


It might make sense as a light bomber for sure. Or the Balmoral might be a heavy fighter? Not sure to be honest.

FF5 MadMaxX wroteColonBombers are added in version 1.1.0
Zeppelins in version 1.2.0


Once the book is out I'll try to work with you on what I meant with the rules if you have any questions and what not. I'll simultaneously be working on the final draft for my fantasy novel, which is my "paying gig" so I may not be quite as available as I am now, but this project has really pumped new life into the love I have for this game and this community.

And if I do decide to build specific bomber and cargo sheets, you'll be the first one to get them. Also, zeppelin sheets are coming too.......

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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby csadn » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:03 am

[GSS]Bandit wroteColonSorry, if I seem trying to make things more complicated than they probably are or should be :?
That's not my intention, just trying to avoid missing something...


Actually, on RL acft., it's possible to have all three -- for ex.: B-24 Liberators of later models had a nose 180-degree turret, tail 180-degree turret, and at least one 360-degree turret amidships; and the midship turrets weren't blocked by the nose and tail turrets.(B-17s as well, tho' the nose turret wasn't man-carrying.) B-25s and -26s could have carried nose turrets as well as their dorsal-360 and tail turrets; but that was more a weight issue than a size issue.

On that topic: Think about how much, in _CS_ terms, having twin 0.50s in each of forward-180, aft-180, and midships-360 would weigh:

2 180 turrets with 2x 0.50 -- 400 + 400 + 400 + 400 = 1,600; x2 = 3,200 lbs.
1 360 turret with 2x 0.50 -- 720 + 400 + 400 + 400 = 1,920 lbs.
Total mass of turrets and weapons: 3,200 + 1,920 = 5,120 lbs.

From my files, a write-up of the Balmoral's specs: BTN 1[F]. MS 1; MG 1; MA 1. 44. pts armor [F, AL, AR: 8; FL, FR: 7; A: 6]. 2x 0.70-cal [3, 4]; 2x 0.60-cal. [5, 6]; 3x 0.30-cal. [2; 7, 8]; 2x Turret (1 1x 0.30-cal [2]; 1 2x 0.30-cal. [7, 8]); 10x HP; 1,405 lbs. cargo. Light Stick; Superior Weapons [all]; Reduced Cockpit Vis.; Accurate Bomber; Fire-Linked Weapons [3, 4] [5, 6] [7, 8]; Inferior Range [-10%]; Multiple Engines [2]. $11,056; 10,000 lbs. (Option: remove 225 lbs. cargo cap.; add 1x 0.30 to F. turret [1]; Sup. Weap. [1]; FLW [1, 2]. $11,434.)

The Balmoral could carry all three turrets -- but not by much, and it flies like a brick to boot. So, the problem solves itself -- only the very largest acft. will have it; and the acft. which does will be a sitting-duck for bomber-destroyers like the Vampire or Kestrel.
CF

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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby FF5 MadMaxX » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:59 am

Patrick wroteColonI haven't decided yet if I'm going to build the specific sheets for each bomber or not. If I do, I might also make two specific cargo planes (namely the Brahma and the Dragonfly), since those are two that have been mentioned heavily in CS lore. It will depend on how much time it takes to finish the rest of the work.

I think this will be a lot of work. In fact I never used the original CS Sheets again, after CADET was out.

Patrick wroteColonIt might make sense as a light bomber for sure. Or the Balmoral might be a heavy fighter? Not sure to be honest.

As I remember it from the PC Game I think it more a light bomber.

Patrick wroteColon
FF5 MadMaxX wroteColonBombers are added in version 1.1.0
Zeppelins in version 1.2.0


Once the book is out I'll try to work with you on what I meant with the rules if you have any questions and what not. I'll simultaneously be working on the final draft for my fantasy novel, which is my "paying gig" so I may not be quite as available as I am now, but this project has really pumped new life into the love I have for this game and this community.

And if I do decide to build specific bomber and cargo sheets, you'll be the first one to get them. Also, zeppelin sheets are coming too.......


This would be a great help! And I wish you many inspiration for your novel.
After I took this long break on Aeronaut, I am also cached the Crimson Skies "fever" ;) again.
For me it the greates alternate universe a game ever came up with.
Even "Operation: Tannhäuser" which has also some nice ideas, cannot compete with CS.

Back to Topic:
Yesterday I finished the aircraft window. So the only thing left for releasing 1.0.0 is the print feature.

I am not shure if I should release an alpha version without printing. So everyone can test the new codebase.

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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby maeglynn » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:29 pm

I can't wait for Aeronaut 1.0 release. I think that being able to play with the data ahead of time is a good idea to verify the content, but I beleive that most issues will be picked up during gameplay.

that's my 2 cents.

in different words, I did not answer your question.If an alpha release will delay the release i would say no, if it does not change the release I would say yes.

Thanks for all the work you are doing, i think Areonaut is the best gaming aid I have seen so far.

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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby FF5 MadMaxX » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:56 pm

Printing is nearly finshed. I also cleaned up the sheets a bit.
This means version 1.0.0 is not far away.

I just want to add the save as... and everything saved function and do some tests.
If everything is fine I can release it this week.

And then I can start working on Z&B :D

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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby maeglynn » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:25 pm

This is so awesome,

I can't wait to see it. I have been a huge fan of your work. I think my friend plays Crimson Skies is due in part to Aeronauts. It is so easy to created your re own sheet.

Cant wait to see it.

thanks for your work.

Alain

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Re: Aeronaut - an Aircraft Designer for CS

Postby FF5 MadMaxX » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:17 pm

Version 1.0.0 is out:
http://www.foxforcefive.de/cs/

What is changed:
- Bugfixes and Tests for Windows 7 you need admin rights for the first launch. Otherwise the file association does not work.
- updated to Flashplayer 10.1 (encapsuled via Zinc)
- updated to Zinc Version 3.0.24
- updated to Console 2.0
- Exe split up into modules and complete code overhaul
- new pinup handling (see readme.txt)
- optimized UI e.g. lists are now scrollable via mouse wheel.
- updated BaseData.ae with Oliver's "GSS-Bandit" corrections and extensions
- Blueprints now loaded and displayed inside Aircraft Window
- Some tweaks in the print sheets
- Some changes for Zeppelin & Bombers are already included but are disabled.
- Aircraft: Bandit has now a turret (7&8)

So the first step is done. The Bombers are next. ;)
Thanks to everyone who supports Aeronaut for this long time.

@Bandit: I have not added your additional aircrafts yet. But I will do it in one of the next releases.

@Patrick: I will send you an email with a few question regarding the bomber construction rules this weekend.


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