[Rules Q] - Bomb, Bomb Bays, and Bombing...

Covering the FASA version of Crimson Skies.
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[Rules Q] - Bomb, Bomb Bays, and Bombing...

Postby Carthaginian » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:38 am

Seeing the 'Wet Navy' posts on the forum has gotten me to wondering - darn you, Cyagen, for that thread necro :P - about how bombing works in the CS universe.

For instance- what is the 'target number' of a ground target? From page 44 of The Rules of Air Combat: "The to-hit number for attacking with a bomb equals (target base to-hit number) + (bomb to-hit modifier) + 5 (if attacking adjacent hex) - (pilot Dead Eye skill) + 2 (if pilot is shocked)." So, what is the 'Target Base To-Hit Number" for the various targets?
According to page 40 of Warriors of the Air, a flack cannon has a 'BTN' of 3.
Do we have any other 'official' numbers for ground targets?

Also with the introduction of Zeppelins and Bombers, we have official bombers. Where does that leave the aircraft like the 'Whitney & Douglas' Behemoth which include a bomb/cargo bay? Does leaving open 'cargo' in a fighter or autogyro design still count as having a 'bomb bay' that allows an aircraft to carry bombs above the limits of its hardpoints?



Additionally and unrelated - Are all the fuselage characteristics relating to G's off-limits for autogyros since they don't push G's?
Southrons, hear your country call you!
Up lest worse than death befall you!
To arms, to arms, to arms in Dixie.


All my planes are made with parts from: http://www.toposolitario.com/workshop/crimsonskies.html.

Patrick
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Re: [Rules Q] - Bomb, Bomb Bays, and Bombing...

Postby Patrick » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:31 am

Carthaginian wroteColonSeeing the 'Wet Navy' posts on the forum has gotten me to wondering - darn you, Cyagen, for that thread necro :P - about how bombing works in the CS universe.

For instance- what is the 'target number' of a ground target? From page 44 of The Rules of Air Combat: "The to-hit number for attacking with a bomb equals (target base to-hit number) + (bomb to-hit modifier) + 5 (if attacking adjacent hex) - (pilot Dead Eye skill) + 2 (if pilot is shocked)." So, what is the 'Target Base To-Hit Number" for the various targets?
According to page 40 of Warriors of the Air, a flack cannon has a 'BTN' of 3.
Do we have any other 'official' numbers for ground targets?

Also with the introduction of Zeppelins and Bombers, we have official bombers. Where does that leave the aircraft like the 'Whitney & Douglas' Behemoth which include a bomb/cargo bay? Does leaving open 'cargo' in a fighter or autogyro design still count as having a 'bomb bay' that allows an aircraft to carry bombs above the limits of its hardpoints?



Additionally and unrelated - Are all the fuselage characteristics relating to G's off-limits for autogyros since they don't push G's?


I'll try to answer the best I can...

The BTN of a ground target is dependent upon what you are attacking. Page 34 of Zeppelins & Bombers has a list of targets from hangers to train cars that should help. I would say anything smaller (like an automobile or a person would be harder to hit. For example, and I'm just making this up on the spot, but a person could have a BTN of 10 and a damage profile of 1x10 (meaning any damage taken is deadly.) A car could be BTN 9 with a damage profile of 2x10. My recommendation is to come up with "house" damage profiles and Base Target Numbers that all of your players can agree upon.

Leaving weight available in a fighter does give it the chance to carry bombs and have a bomb bay. For the Behemoth, for example, it is (if I recall correctly) a BTN heavy fighter that has space for bombs, which is fine. There are many "fighter bombers" that have made a name for themselves throughout the history of aerial combat, and Crimson Skies should be no exception. :)

For the autogyro question, what specific characteristics are you talking about? Things like Heavy stick? If so that is a good question. I'd say since autogyros don't push G's, they should not benefit from choosing heavy stick or light stick.

But my answer is just my opinion and my interpretation of what is out there. In the world where Crimson Skies is much like the time period it depicts (romantic and somewhat faded), it will be the house rules each group develops to solve the problems FASA and Microsoft did not have enough time to solve, and it will be the thing that keeps this game flying long after the manufacturer predicted the airframe would wear out. :)

Patrick

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Re: [Rules Q] - Bomb, Bomb Bays, and Bombing...

Postby Carthaginian » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:16 am

Patrick wroteColonI'll try to answer the best I can...

The BTN of a ground target is dependent upon what you are attacking. Page 34 of Zeppelins & Bombers has a list of targets from hangers to train cars that should help. I would say anything smaller (like an automobile or a person would be harder to hit. For example, and I'm just making this up on the spot, but a person could have a BTN of 10 and a damage profile of 1x10 (meaning any damage taken is deadly.) A car could be BTN 9 with a damage profile of 2x10. My recommendation is to come up with "house" damage profiles and Base Target Numbers that all of your players can agree upon.


What I was thinking was more along the lines of a ship at sea. BTN's for zep and plane hangers would be useful for approximating this, as even the fastest PT boats would take no less than 3 turns (at 50 mph) to move one hex- a battleship or carrier might take as many 5 turns.

Patrick wroteColonLeaving weight available in a fighter does give it the chance to carry bombs and have a bomb bay. For the Behemoth, for example, it is (if I recall correctly) a BTN heavy fighter that has space for bombs, which is fine. There are many "fighter bombers" that have made a name for themselves throughout the history of aerial combat, and Crimson Skies should be no exception. :)


Thanks. I was actually delving deep into the concept of naval combat in CS here- using autogyros in an anti-submarine role. Since the average depth charge at the time was +/- 450 pounds, you'd need to dedicate a lot of weight there.

Patrick wroteColonFor the autogyro question, what specific characteristics are you talking about? Things like Heavy stick? If so that is a good question. I'd say since autogyros don't push G's, they should not benefit from choosing heavy stick or light stick.

But my answer is just my opinion and my interpretation of what is out there. In the world where Crimson Skies is much like the time period it depicts (romantic and somewhat faded), it will be the house rules each group develops to solve the problems FASA and Microsoft did not have enough time to solve, and it will be the thing that keeps this game flying long after the manufacturer predicted the airframe would wear out. :)

Patrick


In specific, the traits I was wondering about were:
Heavy Stick - doesn't seem to work at all.
Light Stick - doesn't seem to work at all.
Poor Maneuverability - this one seems like it could work, making the gyro roll when appropriate.
Poor High-Speed Maneuverability - this one seems like it could work, gyros could still loose control.
Poor Stall Speed - this one seems iffy, but might be adapted... even gyros stall.
Southrons, hear your country call you!
Up lest worse than death befall you!
To arms, to arms, to arms in Dixie.


All my planes are made with parts from: http://www.toposolitario.com/workshop/crimsonskies.html.

Patrick
PostsCOLON 195
JoinedCOLON Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:24 am
Are you a Human?COLON Yes

Re: [Rules Q] - Bomb, Bomb Bays, and Bombing...

Postby Patrick » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:38 am

Carthaginian wroteColonWhat I was thinking was more along the lines of a ship at sea. BTN's for zep and plane hangers would be useful for approximating this, as even the fastest PT boats would take no less than 3 turns (at 50 mph) to move one hex- a battleship or carrier might take as many 5 turns.


Page 35 of ZB has a list of targets, including a cargo ship, large ocean vessel, medium ocean vessel, and small ocean vessel. I recommend using house rules that parallel zep movement rules for the surface vessels, so they can move once every 2,3,4 turns, etc.


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